This document discusses the role of libraries during times of crisis. It provides context on the COVID-19 pandemic's impact on libraries, forcing their closure initially and transition to digital services. Public and academic libraries reacted similarly by closing facilities, extending loans, and intensifying virtual services and resources. The document examines lessons from previous economic crises, finding libraries were more utilized though did not fully transition digitally. It argues libraries are not designed for short-term needs but longer-term social challenges like inequality and isolation. While facing disruptive changes, libraries should focus on supporting user needs and processes over preserving past models. Libraries can help palliate future crises by facilitating community adaptation.
Generative AI for Technical Writer or Information Developers
Some thoughts and consideration on crisis and libraries
1. For what kinds of crisis, libraries
are useful for?
Lluís M. Aglada i de Ferrer
(CSUC)
Eurolis Online Seminar 2020
An online conference held over 3 weeks
Wednesdays 14, 21 and 28 October 2020
2. For what kinds of crisis, libraries
are useful for?
Lluís M. Aglada i de Ferrer
(CSUC)
Eurolis Online Seminar 2020
An online conference held over 3 weeks
Wednesdays 14, 21 and 28 October 2020
Some thoughts and consideration
on crisis and libraries
Lluis Anglada (CSUC)
kindly helped by Lluís Agustí (FIMA-Bcn University) and Ferran Burguillos (Bcn City Libraries)
3. The impact
of the
COVID-19
crisis over
libraries
and their
reaction
1. The
impact of
the
COVID-19
crisis on
libraries
and their
reaction
4. The academic libraries reaction
• Always
• Library staff work from
home
• User attention maintained
by phone
• ILL stopped
• Loans and renewals
automatically extended
• Face-to-face cultural
activities postponed,
• Some times
• Specific communication
plans to disseminate
available e- resources.
• Virtual training intensified
• Web pages, blogs or small
portals with links to e-
content, tutorials and
services
• Online book clubs and
virtual exhibitions still active
5. The public libraries reaction (Barcelona city)
Interview with Ferran Burguillos (Head of Barcelona libraries)
Stage 1: closing (mid-March)
• Libraries must close by governmental mandate
– At the same time, libraries do activities for vulnerable groups (books for the homeless)
• The conditions for reopening involve important physical changes in libraries
– At the same time, some rules were clearly exaggerated (books were put in quarantines of 30 days )
• Some actions were taken to increase digital content and for facilitating distance access
(digital library cards)
– more licenses, the inclusion of educational material
• Stable groups of users (reeding clubs...) were contacted by phone
Stage 2: reopening (2nd June)
• Libraries reopen with important restrictions
• different libraries depending on different administrations interpret differently de rules
established by the Health department
• A lot of library staff are categorized as 'group of risk' and they cannot personally go to the
library and libraries don't have enough staff for opening
6. The public libraries reaction (Barcelona city)
Interview with Ferran Burguillos (Head of Barcelona libraries)
Stage 3: reopening (now)
• Due to the lack of clear common rules for libraries, the different public libraries network
established a board of coordination
– they have not the power to change the rules but they try to interpret them equal
• some services must be reorganized after the 'new normal'
– public computers (internet access) must be booked
– the activities done in libraries require a reservation
– books returned for users must be 48h in quarantine
– ...
Stage 4: changes for the future (structural, not transitory)
• Deepen the digital transformation of processes, work methods and services of the library
• Increase the digital content and equipment, including technological training
(videoconferences) in library services
• Deepen the relationship with communities in the library's neighborhood, especially with the
most vulnerable
7. Can we learn anything from the last economic crisis?
José-Antonio Gómez-Hernández (2009)
• Effects on libraries: budgets at risk
• Users behavior will change & libraries will be more
needed
• It’s an opportunity to rethink library services and
adapt libraries to new needs
Lluís Anglada (2012)
• The economic crisis will represent more competition
between social services for resources. It is a moment
to show and defend the social role of libraries
Hilario Hernández-Sánchez y Natalia Arroyo-
Vázquez (2014)
• Effects on libraries: budget reduction concentrated in
acquisitions but also affecting staff (less budged for
acquisitions = less appealing libraries)
• Libraries are more used (more library cards, more
visits, more borrowings)
• But the structural changes that could have been
made were not made (more automation and digital
content)
8. Libraries are not good for short-run races
It has been studied and happened as it was predicted (Lisl
Zach & Michelynn McKnight. 2013)
• “In disasters, such as … pandemics … librarians may be
called upon to provide new and modified information
services to users whose information needs have
suddenly changed, at the same time that access to
information resources has dramatically diminished.”
• the types of situations envisioned in many traditional
disaster plans … have focused largely on the
preservation of staff, collections, and the physical plant
itself rather than on the provision of services.
After the last and current crisis, we can conclude that
• when a crisis explodes, more urgent needs than culture
appear
• libraries can help, but they lose their foundational
purpose a little
• it is logical (and probably good), but it is also a moment
to explain that libraries are a very good solution for the
recover
9. 2. Let's talk a bit about crisis
Definitions of crisis
Cambrigde dictionary
• a time of great disagreement, confusion, or suffering
Merriam Webster
• an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is
impending,
Wikipedia
• any event that is going (or is expected) to lead to an unstable and
dangerous situation affecting an individual, group, community, or whole
society.
International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
• Disaster = A sudden, calamitous event that seriously disrupts the
functioning of a community or society and causes human, material, and
economic or environmental losses that exceed the community’s or society’s
ability to cope using its own resources.
10. Clayton M. Christensen:
“Disrruptive innovation”
Thomas Kuhn
“Scientific
revolutions”
Great changes are not produced by evolution but by revolution.
Some very important changes are not linear, they are discontinuous,
disruptive
11. Not all crises are the same, neither in depth nor in recovery time
short
medium
long
12. Until the mid-19th-century, libraries were designed to serve some. The great
innovation made with the modern (public) library is that they have been designed
to serve everyone.
At the same time, societies are experiencing big changes (that can be called
crises), that affect libraries: how people gain knowledge and how they relate to
others
3. For what
kind of social
crisis were
public
libraries
created?
14. How libraries helped people to
adapt to a live in cities and to
know how to read becomes
important
How libraries are shared space
(or social infrastructure) that
helps to mitigate some urgent
social challenges as inequality
and isolation
How libraries can be
community builders and help
people to improve their lives
15. A friend of mine asked me to help him borrow an uncommon book
4. Are libraries
‘crisis free’ and
can help to
palliate current
and future social
crisis?
16. The big change does not consist of going from print to digital
The big change is moving from ‘info scarcity’ to ‘info abundance’
17. Are libraries ‘crisis free’ and can help to palliate current and future social crisis?
David W. Lewis
• “… we need to recognize that … what should be about is not
saving the library. Rather, … it should be about providing a
product or service that can help students and faculty to more
effectively, conveniently, and affordably do a job they’ve been
trying to do in their scholarly lives.”
Libraries are experiencing deep
transformative changes
• a sudden, calamitous event that
seriously disrupts the functioning of a
community (= a disaster o crisis)
And quite often the librarian's
reaction is a move to save the library
and this means to preserve it in the
same way as the library was before
the big change
18. Print vs Digital / Scarcity vs Abundancy / Objects vs Processes
In the printing era,
• Information was scarce and time to look for
and to access was abundant
• (Logically) libraries emphasize collecting
information (objects) rather than saving time to
the user (processes)
• People went to the library to have an
environment rich in information (which was
scarce outside the library)
In the digital era,
• Time is scarce and information is abundant
• Libraries (have to) shift their attention to the
user and to the processes of how people use
information more than in the information
(objects) itself
• Libraries have to go to the people and embed
their services in their activities and daily lives
19. Books vs People
The acceleration of the evolution of society will
create new 'long run' crisis. In this context,
adaptation will be needed and libraries can be the
social organizations that escort people in growing
to adapt.
R. David Lankes (Expect more)
• Stone tablets became scrolls, scrolls became
manuscripts, manuscripts became books, and books
are rapidly becoming apps. The tools that libraries
use to achieve the mission, any mission, will change.
The purpose of using those tools (and new tools)
remains steady over long periods of time. Libraries
should be about knowledge, not tools.
20. To finish let's go back to coronavirus crisis
The crisis (the change) appears suddenly and their short-term
consequences (economic or health) will always obscure that the
solution is the people growing and adaptation.
• Libraries and librarians’ purpose is helping in this process.
• Do not give up.
Notas del editor
Abstract: We will examine the measures taken by Spanish libraries in the recent Covid-19 crisis and also those taken in the 2008 economic crisis. In these cases, but also in environmental catastrophes, libraries can help, but this is not their role.What does crisis mean? There are different kinds of crises; these can be big or small, short-term or long-term and often they will not affect all people in the same way. In confusing and troubling times, libraries have to re-examine why they were created; as spaces where the public could access information. Meanwhile, this necessity for libraries is disappearing given the accelerated change of society where information can be distributed rapidly across the globe. Globalisation and sustainability are new challenges (or crises) that people have to cope with. Are these challenges related in some way to the function of a libraryIn the talk, we will try to characterise what kind of crises libraries are facing and how libraries and librarians have to react in order to continue being useful and relevant.
Eurolis Seminar 2020, https://eurolis.wordpress.com/seminar-2020/
21th october 2020
Topic: How can libraries play a positive role in a crisis?
- an online conference held over 3 weeks
Provisional Dates: Wednesdays 14, 21 and 28 October 2020. 2 sessions of 1 hour from 16.00 – 18.00 each day.
Hosts: Institut Francais, London UK
Seminar chair and UK speaker: Isobel Hunter, Chief Executive of Libraries in Partnerships in the UK
Scope of topic: The seminar will seek to explore the ways libraries can play a vital role in times of crisis through online presentations from speakers in Europe and through highly interactive sessions involving an audience of 50 – 60 people each week.
The breadth of the chosen topic is expected to cover the themes of health epidemic, environmental issues/catastrophe or socio-economic/wartime crisis involving the migration or subjugation of large numbers of people and the role a library or group of libraries has played in alleviating the situation.
Speaker's brief: As a speaker you would be expected to be present for one of the 2 hour sessions in which you would give a presentation lasting between 20 - 30 minutes about your experience and in depth knowledge of how a library/ies has dealt with a crisis. You would also be expected to respond to questions and stimulate discussion between seminar participants as well as contributing examples of good practice from other libraries you are aware of with experiences of responding and planning for a crisis.
Eurolis is an association of librarians and information professionals from France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Spain and the UK.
* We believe that libraries and information services are vital for building an educated and open society;
* We support the idea of a free Europe that flourishes through its diversity and tolerance of other cultures;
* We emphasise that the whole, created by trust and cooperation between its members, is greater than the sum of its individual parts.
* We work together to raise the profile of a European library services in the UK, with the primary aim of promoting our countries’ literature, languages and cultures and strengthening our information professionals’ networking and cooperation.
For creating the 3 sessions I will need the following information:
Title or Topic of the webinar:
Description (optional):
Date and time:
Registration: Do you require attendees to register in advance?
If I understand well you would prefer a first come, first served system without registration?
(We can have up to 100 attendees)
If you wish to include any polls/surveys during the sessions it is also something we can plan in advance.
Once this is created we will be able to create and send an Invitation Email to Panelists.
Technical requirments for each pannelist :
- A reliable internet connection with a bandwidth of more than 10 Mbps download and more than 1 Mbps upload.
To test your bandwidth: Follow this link https://librespeed.org/ and press the Start button.
- An email address we will use to send the Zoom link prior to the event.
- A device (Preferably Laptop or desktop) with Zoom installed and fully functional (with webcam and microphone)
- Connected to the internet preferably with a cable rather than wifi (less reliable)
You'll find more detailed technical help in the document attached as well as guidelines on how to look good in front of a camera and improve sound quality.
We could run technical test for each panelist
Wednesday, 7 October - afternoon
3x 20min for each session between 15:00 – 16:00 (UK time)
Eileen Young / The Role of Public Libraries in Disasters // New Visions for Publics Affairs , vol 10, 2018, 31. Vic, 09.10.2020, 2/5
Las bibliotecas de ciencias de salud en tiempos de coronavirus
Publicado el 22/04/2020 por Ana Maria Merino
https://bibliosjd.org/2020/04/22/bibliotecas-ciencias-salud-tiempos-coronavirus/#.X2ciPWj7SUk
METAMORFOSIS DE UN HOSPITAL
UNA UCI EN LA BIBLIOTECA, UN HOTEL RECONVERTIDO Y MUCHA IMAGINACIÓN. ASÍ SE TRANSFORMA UN HOSPITAL PÚBLICO PARA ATENDER A MÁS PACIENTES.
https://www.revista5w.com/why/metamorfosis-un-hospital
Personal médico español improvisa en una UCI provisional / Por RENATA BRITO, April 3, 2020
https://apnews.com/a05d2a74d50b4897a3c9ea724a63b754
De estanterías de libros a camas de UCI: así ha transformado el hospital Can Ruti de Badalona su biblioteca
La emergencia por el coronavirus ha vuelto irreconocibles algunos hospitales como Can Ruti, que ha vaciado la biblioteca para instalar 14 camas de UCI
https://www.eldiario.es/catalunya/estanterias-uci-transformado-can-ruti_1_1221288.html
El bibliotecario que combate la Covid con versos
Lluís Agustí alivió soledades durante el confinamiento con llamadas telefónicas y poemas
https://www.eldiario.es/catalunya/estanterias-uci-transformado-can-ruti_1_1221288.html
¿Cómo están reaccionando las bibliotecas universitarias de REBIUN ante el COVID-19?
https://www.rebiun.org/noticias/universidades/covid-19
Manifest de les biblioteques universitàries davant la COVID-19
https://www.csuc.cat/ca/novetat/manifest-de-les-biblioteques-universitaries-davant-la-covid-19
Domínguez-Aroca, María-Isabel; Grupo #AyudaBiblioteca (2020). “Cooperación de profesionales de las bibliotecas de Ciencias de la Salud como respuesta a la pandemia de la Covid-19”. Profesional de la información, v. 29, n. 4, e290430.
https://doi.org/10.3145/epi.2020.jul.30
Bibliotecas en cuarentena: Cuarenta ideas para afrontar un confinamiento bibliotecario y seguir siendo claves para la comunidad
https://www.lavanguardia.com/cultura/culturas/20200905/483263752691/bibliotecas-cuarentena-covid.html
Biblioteques de Bcn: Biblioteques obertes i mesures d’accés
https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/biblioteques/ca/noticia/biblioteques-obertes-i-mesures-dacces-2_981659
El Govern aprova ampliar al 70% l'aforament dels teatres, els cinemes i les sales de concerts: No es podran superar els mil assistents asseguts i la mascareta hi serà obligatòria
https://www.ara.cat/cultura/aforaments-teatres-cinemes-70-percentatge-procicat-mesures-coronavirus-covid-19_0_2531146978.html
El govern declararà la cultura "bé essencial" i augmentarà els aforaments fins al 70%
https://www.ccma.cat/324/el-govern-declarara-la-cultura-be-essencial-i-augmentara-els-aforaments-fins-al-70/noticia/3047758/#.X2io87roJ9Y.twitter
Bibliotecas en cuarentena: Cuarenta ideas para afrontar un confinamiento bibliotecario y seguir siendo claves para la comunidad
https://www.lavanguardia.com/cultura/culturas/20200905/483263752691/bibliotecas-cuarentena-covid.html
Biblioteques de Bcn: Biblioteques obertes i mesures d’accés
https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/biblioteques/ca/noticia/biblioteques-obertes-i-mesures-dacces-2_981659
El Govern aprova ampliar al 70% l'aforament dels teatres, els cinemes i les sales de concerts: No es podran superar els mil assistents asseguts i la mascareta hi serà obligatòria
https://www.ara.cat/cultura/aforaments-teatres-cinemes-70-percentatge-procicat-mesures-coronavirus-covid-19_0_2531146978.html
El govern declararà la cultura "bé essencial" i augmentarà els aforaments fins al 70%
https://www.ccma.cat/324/el-govern-declarara-la-cultura-be-essencial-i-augmentara-els-aforaments-fins-al-70/noticia/3047758/#.X2io87roJ9Y.twitter
Bibliotecas públicas en tiempos de crisis / José-Antonio Gómez-Hernández (El profesional de la información)
https://recyt.fecyt.es/index.php/ThinkEPI/article/view/31240
Se analiza cómo afecta la actual crisis económica a las bibliotecas públicas y qué iniciativas deben tomar para ayudar a los usuarios sin trabajo y con dificultades económicas. Se estudia el incremento del número de usuarios, la reducción de presupuestos, la necesidad de dar prioridad a la acción educativa y social para ayudar a los usuarios más necesitados, y las posibilidades de cooperación con organismos de fomento del empleo y la formación. Se expone finalmente el ejemplo de la Biblioteca Regional de Murcia, que ha implantado el programa “Biblioteca, punto de empleo”.
¿Podemos hablar de crisis desde las bibliotecas? / Lluís Anglada https://recyt.fecyt.es/index.php/ThinkEPI/article/view/30388
¿Afectará la crisis a las bibliotecas? ¿Podemos defender las bibliotecas en tiempos de crisis? Podemos responder afirmativamente a las dos preguntas. Aunque en estos momentos de escasez no podemos anteponer las bibliotecas a necesidades más prioritarias, los profesionales debemos explicar a la sociedad lo que las bibliotecas aportan y beneficio-coste de nuestra gestión. Es el papel de las asociaciones profesionales, de los profesionales y de las bibliotecas. Se exponen tres motivos para fomentar las bibliotecas: permiten y refuerzan el crecimiento de las personas y sustentan el autoaprendizaje; son entornos públicos que no están basados en el consumo; y son instituciones que favorecen a los desfavorecidos y ayudan a la inclusión social.
Finalmente, debemos estar convencidos del valor social de las bibliotecas. Hay al menos tres motivos para fomentar las bibliotecas siempre y también en momentos de crisis económica:
– son equipamientos que permiten y refuerzan el crecimiento de las personas y sustentan el autoaprendizaje, la formación a lo largo de la vida y la alfabetización tecnológica;
– son entornos públicos que no están basados en el consumo, que permiten la satisfacción de las aficiones individuales y que refuerzan los hábitos culturales en los que se sustentan todos los sectores de la cultura;
– son instituciones que ayudan a los desfavorecidos y facilitan la inclusión social y la creación de lazos comunitarios; en momentos de crisis económica, las bibliotecas son para mucha gente el refugio que no podrá encontrar en otro sitio.
Efectos de la crisis económica en las bibliotecas españolas / Hilario Hernández-Sánchez y Natalia Arroyo-Vázquez
Las bibliotecas en España, como otras instituciones, se están viendo afectadas por la crisis económica. Se analiza, a la luz de los datos estadísticos disponibles, en qué manera y cuáles son sus primeras consecuencias. Además de la importante disminución del gasto en adquisiciones y la consecuente desactualización de las colecciones, en 2012 se observa la desaparición de puntos de servicio y la reducción del personal, a la vez que se registra una creciente demanda de los servicios de biblioteca. También se pone de manifiesto el cambio de hábitos de consumo de contenidos y se presta una especial atención a lo digital, otro de los rasgos que más afectan a las bibliotecas en la actualidad. Datos de 2012: los gastos corrientes de las bibliotecas españolas ascendieron a 990,1 millones de euros (+0,54% sobre 2010), aunque en realidad es -5%, si setiene en cuenta el incremento del IPC. El gasto de personal representa un 66,9%. Las bibliotecas públicas (BPs) registran 594 empleados menos que en 2010 y las universitarias 154 (-5,6% y -2,6% respectivamente). Las BPs incorporaron 3,5 millones de volúmenes (-31,2% / 2010). Visitas: total 216,4 millones (BPs +20,5% / 2010). 401 bibliotecas (20%) no disponían de ordenadores para uso público y 46,5% bibliotecas estaban aún sin opac.
La crisis económica que atraviesa España está dejando huella de forma evidente en el gasto, con especial influencia en el capítulo de adquisiciones, y por lo tanto también en lascolecciones, que envejecen. También en el personal, con la pérdida de puestos de trabajo, en la desaparición de puntos de servicio y en la reducción de los horarios de apertura. La tendencia descendente comenzó a notarse de forma clara en el gasto de adquisiciones en 2010 y con el tiempo se han añadido el resto de los apartados mencionados.
La distribución del gasto tiende a un cierto desequilibrio, ya que el gasto en personal alcanza niveles por encima del 70%y revierte así de manera negativa en los presupuestos para adquisiciones, actividades y otros servicios. Este desequilibrio se había detectado en las bibliotecas públicas a lo largo de la década de los noventa (Hernández-Sánchez, 2008) y había sido superado en los primeros años del siglo XXI. En el ámbito de lo digital las bibliotecas siguen teniendo asignaturas pendientes importantes sin resolver, como los catálogos automatizados y la presencia web. Por otra par te, desde 2008 los niveles de equipamiento informático se han estancado, lo que hace pensar que existe un número de bibliotecas que no han superado la etapa pre-tecnológica y que, teniendo en cuenta la situación, no parece que la vayan a superar en los próximos años. Lo digital trae también cambios en los hábitos de consumo a los que las bibliotecas se deberán adaptar en los próximos años.
International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent, “About Disasters,”
https://www.ifrc.org/en/what-we-do/disaster-management/about-disasters/
(acces 15 Oct 2020)
At the same time, societies lived (are living) big changes (crisis?) that affected two things related to libraries: how people gain knowledge and how relates with others
How libraries are shared space (o social infrastructure) that helps to palliate some pressing societal challenges as inequality and isolation
Lord George Bentinch : a political biography / by B. Disraeli (Colburn and Co., 1852
Un exemplar al ccuc no prestable
http://cbueg-mt.iii.com/iii/encore/record/C__Rb6375304__Sdisraeli%2C%20benjamin__P0%2C22__Orightresult__U__X4?lang=cat&suite=def
Un exemplar en obert al projecte Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20007
The first step in reimagining the academic libraries is to determine the jobs we are being hired to do. As we do so we need to recognize that at the end of the day what we should be about is not saving the library. Rather, as Christensen suggests, it should be about providing a product or service that can help students and faculty to more effectively, conveniently, and affordably do a job they’ve been trying to do in their scholarly lives. If the library is to provide value, it needs to find those jobs it can do that cannot be done more effectively by others. Unless we find those jobs, we have no good reason to exist. As we will explore in in the coming chapters, I believe such jobs exist and that libraries and librarians are uniquely positioned to do them, but most of them are different from what we have done in the past. P 91
La biblioteca moderna, centrada en el llibre
is the book-centered paradigm, which has its origins in nineteenth-century industrial techniques for paper production and printing, which then led to an explosion in the volume of printed material. This led to the need to house ever more expansive stacks of physical volumes, with study areas increasingly arranged around the perimeter of these stacks.
This paradigm perhaps reached its height in the second half of the twentieth century, in the form of multistory library buildings with extensive stacks, perhaps augmented by off-site storage. The architectural legacies of this paradigm are still concretely apparent in many existing academic library buildings.
La biblioteca postmoderna, centrada en les persones
digital technologies are now supporting a new learning-centered paradigm, in which users engage in solo and group learning, often with digital resources. Digital tecnologies are eliminating many of the spatial and temporal barriers to obtaining information (articles, papers, and the like), thus creating space within libraries for the provision of “good public spaces” alongside their existing information services.
Such good públic spaces should support learning in ways that are social and immersive in nature. In this paradigm, book stacks are becoming less visible, while spaces for learning and collaboration (tables, chairs, couches, nooks, and so on) are moving to the center (for instance, in the form of information commons and learning commons).
“A Really Nice Spot”: Evaluating Place, Space, and Technology in Academic Libraries
Michael J. Khoo, Lily Rozaklis, Catherine Hall, and Diana Kusunoki
doi: 10.5860/crl.77.1.51 January 2016 College & Research Libraries, vol. 77 no. 1 51-70
https://crl.acrl.org/index.php/crl/article/view/16490
What is guiding this transformation? What is shaping Ranganathan’s “growing organism”? A long-held mission:
The mission of a library is to improve society through facilitating knowledge creation in the community.
To be clear, this is my wording, but the underlying concepts can be seen historically where scholars used to run libraries to advance the research agenda of their colleges. It can also be seen in the librarians of Kenya and Columbia who started off this book. Bad libraries only build collections. Good libraries build services (and a collection is only one of many). Great libraries build communities.
Stone tablets became scrolls, scrolls became manuscripts, manuscripts became books, and books are rapidly becoming apps. The tools that libraries use to achieve the mission, any mission, will change. The purpose of using those tools (and new tools) remains steady over long periods of time. Libraries should be about knowledge, not tools.
Libraries and librarians' purpose is helping in this process. No surrender.